A job with high earning potential and growth opportunities. It's not impossible without a degree. Tune in as Kim Chung dives into the versatile career of sales.
Jonaed interviews Kim Chung, who shares her experiences with three different sales bootcamps: RAM, Aspireship, and TrainYo. Kim provides insights into the strengths and weaknesses of each program and offers advice for choosing a bootcamp. She emphasizes the importance of hands-on learning and the need for comprehensive training that covers both fundamental and advanced sales skills. Kim also discusses the challenges of rejection in sales and the importance of self-care and mental preparation. The episode concludes with a discussion on entry-level SDR salaries and the potential for growth in the sales field.
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Episode 184 Transcript:
Navigating sales: What to expect, How to Prepare and Earning Potential—Kim Chung
[00:00:00]
Intro
Jonaed: Are you interested in tech sales but not sure where to start; or perhaps you've been thinking whether sales boot camps are the right path for you. If you've had these questions, then you're going to love this episode. Today we have Kim Chung, a tech sales professional who has successfully navigated the world of technology sales using boot camps. Kim has attended several sales boot camps, and will give an in-depth review of her experiences. She'll share which boot camps are worth it, and which boot camps aren't.
You'll learn how to properly select the boot camp that will set you up for success. If you're considering a career in tech sales, or you're curious about the benefits of sales bootcamps, this episode is for you. The No Degree Podcast showcases diverse routes to success for those without college degrees. I'm your host, Jonaed Iqbal and I've made it my mission to help individuals without degrees find meaningful careers that pay well. So tune in, get comfortable and prepare for a unique perspectives on success as we unpack Kim Chung's journey in tech sales and our experience with sales boot camps right here on The No Degree Podcast.
Episode Start:
Jonaed: Welcome to another episode of The No Degree Podcast. I want to personally thank you for tuning in and supporting our show. If you haven't yet, hit that follow or subscribe button. I encourage you. Don't keep this yourself. Share these inspiring stories with your friends, invite them to subscribe and connect with us on social media. So today, I have a very special guest, Kim Chung. Kim has been through three sales boot camps. And Kim is going to give you insights on what she went through in each of those boot camps.
She's going to let you know what she found that helped her, what she found didn't help her. And she'll give you insight so that you have an idea of what you should look for in a sales boot camps. Boot Camps are a great options, but they can get very expensive, and some of them are outright predatory with their pricing. So today's episode, we're going to make sure that when you leave that you can effectively get your first job as SDR or BDR. So hi, Kim.
Kim: Hi, Jonaed. How are you? Thank you for having me.
Jonaed: Good. Good. So, you started off with RAM. But before you got and went to RAM, you actually came from somewhat of a background in sales. Can you give us a brief summary of your background?
Kim: Yes. I've always done financial services, but I am more the front client facing role in some management capacity, working in banking and credit union most of the time. During the time of COVID, I just started looking around and seeing that everyone was looking for a safe work option where they don't have to not only commute, but just still make income, but at the same time, you don't have to expose to COVID, and potentially bringing it home and it was like a huge thing at that time.
So, looking up at becoming an SDR I looked at several programs. And at that time, RAM came around, and they were offering free classes. With RAM basically I wanted to see, just kind of check it out because what can you lose? You only have time, right? I signed up and I went through with the program, it was quick, fairly quick. It went through some online modules, some basic and then it also actually have a coach to kind of work with you one on one, like giving you some pointers when you go through a sales call, when you get to that module of sales call.
So, I thought it was really helpful because you’re actually getting in-depth industry expert to actually kind of give you some true, real guidance as to what can you do better; or what are you not doing correctly when you're making their phone calls when you have your opener, right? And then it goes into all that email template and stuff.
Jonaed: That's good to know. So, did you feel that like, let's say someone came in with zero sales experience, right? And let's say 100 would be their top notch SDR, where would you say RAM gets you?
Kim: I would probably rank it at a low, maybe about 20. I am a visual learner myself and I feel like the engagement wasn't there completely for me. It was a lot of videos that you can just play but I want some more of hands on and having the actual person to teach the class.
[00:04:58]
Jonaed: So, more hands on. Do you feel like the knowledge was comprehensive or it was just very fundamental?
Kim: Very fundamental. And as I have been following companies since pre-COVID time, I see a lot of the churning of SDR coming from one company and like, what are they not doing well? Because it's all about building that relationship and connecting. But at the same time, I feel like they're not honed in on that relationship building part. But they're just turning and turning on calls. That's more of like a burned out aspect of the word.
Jonaed: Okay. So, you feel like it gave you an introduction to the concept, but didn't give you enough practice or support to really hone those skills?
Kim: Yes, yes. And I find that that's really essential. Because imagine putting yourself through the lens of a buyer or someone that's making decisions for the company, you're getting calls all the time. Like, what's this SDRs going to be another difference. And this is like so many layers of calls before you even get to the right person to even get a meeting.
Jonaed: That makes sense. So, you mentioned that the program was about four weeks long.
Kim: Yes, it's about four weeks.
Jonaed: Okay. Do they still offer it or is it something they don't offer anymore?
Kim: Honestly, I haven't checked at it since. Because after I took the class and I'm like, okay, I kind of know afterward that this is actually a recruiting company utilizing an educational component to pretty much get their candidates the basic fundamental before they pitch them to potential employer. That was the whole gist that I kind of wrap my hands around it. So, even though I went through maybe about ten interviews or so with companies after I completed the training, there wasn't one that really stick to me.
Jonaed: So now, you went to get another boot camp, and this time, it was a Aspireship. What was your reasoning for choosing them, as opposed to continue to look for a job?
Kim: When I went to as Aspireship, it was more of a comparison to see, because of all the great things that I've heard about Aspireship. And to be honest, they pretty much that – that place, I would highly, highly recommend people to go through that program, because again, there's no cost to it. That was a huge point for me because I wasn't going to spend any money to try to learn something and then to give it back in a way.
But Aspireship is a good platform. Their teaching is very unique in a way that it actually allows you to record your own kind of demo, talk to some of the interviews before they grade you on the final. So, that was the final, when you go through all the modules and the learning, you have to pass each one before you get moved on to the next.
Jonaed: I've heard good things about Aspireship, and I had their CTO, Jason on the podcast. I really liked their model, and they're pretty comprehensive. They've always done a good job of just increasing —
Kim: Christine is amazing.
Jonaed: Yes, just increasing access and being supportive. So now, how would you rate them from zero to 100 in preparing you for a sales job?
Kim: I would say a good 80, in the high 80 range, because the language is very easy to absorb. They don't use technical jargon to teach you. But again, just a lot of practice, a lot of self-practice. And the networking piece is huge just introducing you to mentor with potentially other companies.
Jonaed: Now, what would you say they didn't cover?
Kim: I think they probably wouldn't even know because every company is so different. They probably did not cover the different industries in tech. It's mainly yes, you're going to be in an SDR role, but at the same time, there's so many – what is that word I’m trying to use?
[00:10:01]
Jonaed: Variety.
Kim: Yes, there's so many verticals in tech that if you kind of help the students to see where they could potentially work, they probably could prepare you better for that instead of just mirror you to what they think is a good company and then sending you on referral to that. But I've seen and I've met a lot of people who done really extremely well through a Aspireship.
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So, just for the listeners to [AUDIO SKIPS 00:11:28] and is just a lot of times these boot camps will go for SaaS sales, they'll go for tech sales, but just realize that there's supply chain. There’s CPG. There's other types of services that you would never know about, like telecom sales. And one of the highest priced resume, one of the people that I did a resume for who made the highest salaries, who made close over half a million dollars a year and depending on certain things he may have made, he may even make a million dollars a year, he sold paper packaging products.
And he mentioned all of his deals were with large companies, and they were in the seven figure range. So, a lot of times some of these boring industries, just think about there's a salesperson that sells parts to AutoZone or to mechanics. There are people who sell printers that make T-shirts, and a lot of times they dominate their industries. A lot of people don't realize that there are people who sell healthcare solutions to offices. There are people who sell equipment to doctors’ offices and dentists.
So, don't close yourself off. A lot of time people are not pursuing these industries so if you cold-call, or you reach out, or you make a connection – I know a lot of people make good in pharma sales, medical sales. These are other industries that you can do well on. Now, you went through the program, what are some of the things you learned if you could share with the audience?
Kim: I think you learn that there are just so many ways to use different available platforms to get to someone’s contact, at least that's what I learned. I thought that back in, well, you guys probably will know when I say this, but back in the days people used to go through what a yellow book or a white page but they still exist. I still drop that thick old thing in front of my house.
But now these days you have what – you can use Apollo, you can use some other really cool software to look up someone in the company, love LinkedIn Navigator, sales NAV, right? You make that connection, but I think anything platform is not going to be as real as you really actually taking the time to get that true connection going for that person to get to know you. Because at the end of the day, you are a real person behind that lens.
Jonaed: Now do you feel that after Aspireship that someone can start a full time job as an SDR and do okay?
Kim: Yes, absolutely. There's going to be, of course, hard work and constant molding and stuff and coaching. But if they have the right support system – because at the end of the day, employer and people need to see that someone who come into the role of SDR, one is because there's income potential. That's flat out, you're in it for the money, for the growth, for the technology, for just to stay on top of things. But at the same time, I think it has to do with your passion.
[00:15:00]
If you're true about really enjoying to talk to people and getting them the right solution, then yes, being an SDR is really going to be your job.
Jonaed: Now, what are some things that regardless of any training program, people are going to have to learn. I feel like getting used to rejection is something that's just —
Kim: Yes, that's a given. I mean, even as you go into the boot camp, when you go in through those mock interviews, those are harsh. I mean, once I had a coach that basically I had to do a cold call to, and as soon as I picked up the phone, the first thing I said was, Hi. This is Kim, then there's “No, no. Drop it. Don't even use that.” You have to just keep practice, and practice and learn the right language. Learn the right language to talk, and it does takes practice.
I once saw another LinkedIn feed on a gal who was so brave to kind of watch, let us see how she makes her call, and how she gets rejected. And it was like, wow. And that's the kind of thing that you want to learn and see from because getting through the interview is one, getting higher is one, getting on the company as one but after you get through that, two weeks a week, if didn't even if they have a week now of orientation with a company, you're expected to perform. So, you're expected to perform so come as prepared as it is, but just be ready. Be ready to fight that phone.
Jonaed: Yes, it’s something important. Okay. So now, you went to TrainYo. What was your reasoning for that to go for another bootcamp?
Kim: Previously, when I was at Aspireship, I think I met one of the trainers that went to TrainYo. And something about him that I wanted to learn more from, that I feel like this is a person that can actually help inspire me to do something different. And so, him going to train you as a trainer and me wanting to see what is all this hype for all these different bootcamps but with TrainYo, they are actually doing not web version that they let you watch, this is actually in-person on Zoom —
Jonaed: So, not in-person, just on Zoom Live?
Kim: Yes, Live Zoom. And you get to actually interact just like a whole class. It was intriguing, and I'm like, “Oh, you get to do this? Sign me up.” So, I met people, I interacted with people, that's exactly what I needed to do as exactly what I needed to be in that space. TrainYo is so different than the other bootcamps and I wish they could have just continued.
I wish they did not stop because they actually helped me see from a perspective of really what it takes to actually be an SDR behind that scene from the application, the fundamental, the rejection, the business side, the interview side. The different software that you can use to navigate as you're making the calls, the roleplay. And every week, we bring on different experts from the industry who are actually already in the gig, and have been there. Some of these names are very well known.
Jonaed: So, for those of you listing, TrainYo unfortunately had to stop its operations since TrainYo was very comprehensive. I was one of the instructors, it paid us to make sure for our time and had to pay the workers for the operations. Unfortunately, due to a down economy, TrainYo made us money off of placing the people that it trained. A lot of companies did not want hire SDRs because in a down economy, there are so many applications.
So, they did not want to pay any fees to hire and that's what led to it. But by listening to Kim, you realize that what made it so good is that it was very comprehensive. Realize that there's a lot that goes into sales. So, I really recommend you pick up a lot of sales books just to get different perspectives. That roleplay, I had a sales person on my podcast, and they mentioned they did so many roleplays, kept on practicing.
[00:20:01]
They kept on trying new scenarios and they did very well. But it was not easy at all and it takes a lot of commitment and discipline. What are some other things that you feel that TrainYo did well?
Kim: I think overall, it had really good preparation. It prepares you mentally as a seller to really get your foot in the door. I mean, when I left that program, I feel like I wish it would have been longer because I miss a lot of mine, I was made cohort, always make cohorts. And I made friends like you stay connected with those same people, the same people that you want to see do well.
I have one girl in my class, she worked as in she got into an SDR role, never worked in a SaaS space before, ever. And I think, at one point, she worked at a fast food chain, but just really sweet girl, getting on to the program, putting in the time learned it. Every week, we would check in with each other. Finally, when she got the job, she's like, “I can't believe they picked me. I didn't even know why they picked me, Kim.”
I'm like, sometimes you kind of have to go off the grid and not go with your instinct by hiring. Because some of the best people out there, they don't have the experience. But if you're willing to coach them and train them, they have the heart to do the work and stay in the work longer than those who actually have done a couple of these games.
Jonaed: Yes. And here's the beauty of sales. Sales is one of the industries they don't necessarily care about whether or not you have a degree, because at the end of the day, can you sell? You don't learn the fundamentals of selling in college, you don't learn how to get rejected, you don't learn the emotional intelligence, you don't learn the people skills. You learn this outside the classroom and oftentimes, a lot of that information is going to be on books and podcasts. Now, if you were to give it a rating from zero to 100, what would you give TrainYo?
Kim: I think I would give TrainYo 100 top down? I have to share something and I think this is actually already out there. But when TrainYo was doing well, I think despite the fact that they lost one of their founders – amazing guy, it's one of those things where if you always go back and question if he's still around, will TrainYo still be around? And I think that would always be a question for all of us.
I am all 100% support for the current founder that that he's going to be moving on to other things. But at the same time, it takes a lot to lead a company. I just want everyone to understand that it wasn't just them competing, but they really put their hearts and mind into a place that they believe in and that was to grow people and really develop people who's going to enjoy what they're going to do. So, I like that for them.
Jonaed: For the audience, Sunil Kumar was one of the co-founders of TrainYo along with Omar Sadik. Unfortunately, Sunil passed away and it makes me sad that I still have the WhatsApp messages, the voice notes. I got to figure out how to take them off my phone. And he was always so supportive, he was always saying “Hey, I've been such a bad friend. I'm sorry for not getting back to you.” And I knew that he really poured heart and soul into the community so just realize that programs like this take a lot of work. Now, how long was that program?
Kim: Eight weeks. It was the longest because I remember when I got signed up and Paula connected me to Sunil. When I talked to him, doing a one on one with him, he says, “This is going to take longer. What do you think is going to be different when you take – same questions that you asked me. Like you went through RAM, you went through Aspireship, what are you hoping to get out of TrainYo?”
I said, “I see this more of like a community. I'm here to network but at the same time, I want to network with more people who are in the same space as me growing with me.” I'm not working as an SDR yet. I mean, eventually I did but it was like it did not just take a month. It did not take two months. It was like four or five months after that.
[00:24:58]
But I learned and I put all the concepts that I learned, and I practice and I keep practicing. And till now I'm still using a lot of the stuff that I learned at TrainYo.
Jonaed: For those of you in the audience, Episode 72, is with Sunil Kumar. And another episode is with Omar Sadik. I've interviewed both the founders about their journey so kind of just see the sales skills and how they applied it. Now, eight weeks, you mentioned one thing, and I think this is really important, is they had a community. It's always good to have a community and to have an accountability partner.
I always recommend when you start going online, if you have someone to go through any program with that maybe you could be like, hey, I'll read a book, we'll take notes, we'll do x, y, z, that you can share, so that you're not going through at it alone. And it's so much easier to go through things when you have someone and that other person keeps you accountable.
Because you're going to work hard to make sure you're accountable to them. They're also going to work hard to stay accountable to you. Now, you went through the program, what were some things that you felt you were still missing, even after going through a great program like TrainYo?
Kim: I think the missing piece is probably – and it's not a surprise, because I think people say that they can reject you any day, right? I think I learned to accept and move from disappointment, like don't put myself too high of a hope and make myself disappointing. I mean, for example,
I have worked in company where after TrainYo I had deals that I thought that was sure going to be closed, like, close it that in that book. And it’s just like, nope, apparently not. So, with the sales piece, that's great. I think that it could be an extra layer additive of components in there. It would be – this is more of like nowadays we call it, it will be self-care, self-care for yourself during the sales process.
Jonaed: Yes, and it's crazy. I've had situations where people just pull out last minute, and it sucks, that you thought you had it and they just pull out. But it's a part of sales, right? There are so many things outside of your control, maybe they lost budget. I've had instances where for sales, people lost their jobs so now I lost my point of contact. And now you have to start all over again. There are many reasons why you could lose a sale. And something that again, no amount of talking about it, telling you about it is going to prepare you for it until it actually happens to you.
Kim: Yes, for sure. Facts.
Jonaed: So now, what advice would you have for someone choosing a bootcamp?
Kim: Be like me, go with a variety. I think there's so many programs out there, but look for a place that actually doesn't cost you anything to join. Aspireship is still around. I don't know if RAM is still there. But basically, there are a lot of programs out there that doesn't require you any upfront costs at all, at all, zero. So, as long as you make that investment to do your research, and go into it with an open heart and an open mind that you're going to expect to learn something from it is really key and just be ready. Being an SDR is not for the faint of heart, really. You're going to be on the phone a lot like 90% of the time.
Jonaed: Yes. And so it's a great career, it opens up a lot. A lot of people in sales, they sometimes leave sales, but they always have those skills. Whether they go on to start their own business, whether they go on a different career, you are always selling something, right? Oftentimes you're selling yourself, you're selling initiatives, you're selling a program, you're moving forward with things.
Those are things that you want to be mindful of. Now, again, as Kim said, do your research, make sure you're looking. I know that there are some low cost programs, I would really recommend you read some sales books, listen to some sales podcasts to get the idea of what you should be expecting. I think it helps if you understand some sales concepts. And then, one way I've realized that some people get into sales is try to sell for a friend, try to get an idea.
At the end of the day sales is about solving problems for people, understand how you can solve problems for people, how you can use that to set yourself apart. It's a great career, but it's not for everyone. I know some people that it's just not for them and it's okay. But just because sales is not a great career for you does not mean you can't learn a lot from sales.
[00:30:06]
Kim: Yes, absolutely. I totally agree because it’s one to be in a sales base. It’s a lot, lot harder, I think to be in a leadership role. In that sales space, I hear a lot of challenges these days. It’s not for everyone. But if you enjoy the work, look for a vertical that you can enjoy. For example, in sales if you want to, find something that you enjoy like what I’m doing right now. I’m working in healthcare. I still work with the public but my role, I interact with the public solving problems, trying to provide people resources. That’s what I do.
Jonaed: I absolutely loved that. Now, what advice would you give to yourself before you start at any of these boot camps?
Kim: What advice would I give to myself? Give yourself time to absorb the learnings. Don’t rush it and just know that the right company did not choose you, it’s not because something’s wrong with you. There’s something that is out there for you. There’s a door that’s wider that is for you, that’s bigger for you and not everybody is going to like you. You have a space that’s for you so just know that.
Jonaed: I love that. Thank you so much for your time, Kim. This is such an informative episode. I know this will help people really get an idea of what they need to do and what they should expect from a boot camp, especially one for sales. So, thank you so much for your time, Kim. One final question. How much do entry level SDRs make?
Kim: I would say, realistically, entry level SDR can expect anywhere from $60,000 to start and that’s just their base, at least. Of course, they have the OTE. You tackle on another $30,000 is very realistic for me. It’s realistic but of course there are people who actually can hike up that quota real good and meet that unlimited potential. But set a goal that is realistic for yourself and make it fun. That’s really the key.
If you are just going to work and you’re dreading about hitting the base and not making your OTE then there’s time to put a support system at work and how to get you there. There are processes in place for you to do that but at the same time everybody has bills, everybody has obligations. So make it a priority that this is something that you can live with and this is something that you need to have to be to make it for yourself, for your family. Don’t sell yourself short.
Jonaed: Good advice, good advice. I just realized that salaries also vary. I’ve seen salaries go down a little in this market and is going to vary depending on the industry. I’ve seen some have bases of like $30,000 to $45,000. It’s going to vary. What I always say is focus first on getting the right opportunity. Once you gain experience, you can always switch industries, you can move up and your salaries would go up more. For example, one of the persons that I did a resume for who made half a million, he doesn’t have a base salary.
All of his was commission and he’s made that for 20 years. I did another resume for someone who makes six figures and has made it for the last ten years off commission only jobs. So, just realize that there are a lot of opportunities. You have to figure out what works for you and your life situation and what you need. But I’ve seen sales people, again, without college degrees make $100,000 to $500,000. So, do your research —
Kim: It’s out there.
Jonaed: It’s definitely out there. So, I appreciate you sharing everything, Kim and thank you for giving the listeners a lot of great info.
Kim: Of course, Jonaed. Thank you so much for having me again. Glad to be here and people can connect with me. I’m happy to share however I can and help out.
Jonaed: Thank you, Kim.
Kim: Thank you.
Outtro: Another great episode. Thank you for listening. Hopefully this information was valuable, and you learned a lot. Stay tuned for the next episode. This show is sponsored by you. No Degree wants to remain free from influence so that we can talk about the topics without bias. If you think the show is worth a dollar or two, please check out our Patreon page. Any amount is appreciated and will go towards making future episodes even better. Follow us on Instagram or Snapchat @nodegreepodcast, on Facebook @facebook.com/NoDegreeInc. If you want to personally reach out to me connect or follow me on LinkedIn @jonaediqbal, spelled J-O-N-A-E-D, last name I-Q-B-A-L. Until next time, no degree, no problem. Nodegree.com.
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