He was a musician who planned to become a pastor. Tune in to find out how he fell into enterprise sales.
Charles had his life planned out; go to Bible College, become a pastor and spread the word through powerful speeches and music.
All this changed when he landed an internship for a retail position at Apple.
He discovered a new love for solving problems through enterprise sales. And it paid well!
Time Stamps:
(01:04) — Charles' intro
(02:12) — Blueprint for success
(03:43) — Making $100k in base salary alone in enterprise sales
(05:50) — Backstory (Highschool, teenage dreams, landing a retail job at Apple)
(07:23) — Valuable lessons learned at Apple
(09:19) — Transitioning into a corporate field
(10:47) — Making a mark by networking and showing up
(12:05) — Showing up = high-value opportunities
(15:33) — Learning more about enterprise sales from experts on YouTube and TikTok
(16:58) — TikTok nuggets
(18:19) — Tough lessons learned along the way
(20:47) — Sales then vs now
(23:02) — Charles' biggest accomplishment
(24:51) — Most difficult life experience
(25:52) — Mistakes that prevent salespeople from moving up
(26:52) — Finding valuable mentors
(30:05) — Advice for 18-year-old Charles
Support/Contact Charles Bishop:
* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bishopcharles/
Books and resources mentioned in this podcast:
* Marcus Taylor Coaching: https://www.marcustaylorcoaching.com/
* Black Men in Tech: https://www.linkedin.com/company/blk-men-in-tech
* Resume course: https://bit.ly/podcastpca
Need career or resume advice? Follow and/or connect with Jonaed Iqbal on LinkedIn.
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Episode 168 Transcript: From Bible College to 6-Figures in Enterprise Sales–Charles Bishop
[00:00:00]
Intro: Charles: Network and just be around the right people at the right time, and then also perform. We've touched on it a little bit in the beginning, it's not necessarily all about being salesy, it's more about being inquisitive. And then also, it's about your availability. Somebody told me once, your greatest ability is your availability, and I do my best to show up to work every day.
Episode Start:
Jonaed: Welcome to another episode of the No Degree podcast. I want to personally thank you for tuning in and supporting our show. If you haven't yet, hit that follow or subscribe button. I encourage you, don't keep this to yourself. Share these inspiring stories with your friends, invite them to subscribe and connect with us on social media. So today, I have Charles Bishop who works in enterprise sales. Can you share a little bit more about what you do?
Charles: Yes, nice to meet you. Thank you for having me on the show, I appreciate it. I’m a fan of your work, I think you're doing awesome content. A little bit about me, I'm based in Austin, Texas. I work for a startup called Karat. We focus on delivering exceptional experiences with interviewing software engineers, for companies. So, a little bit about what I do more specifically.
I try to solve problems, try to be inquisitive about what's going on with our customers organization, and identify ways that our company can come in and just make their processes a little bit smoother, and just increase that experience that they're having as an organization. That's what I focus on is trying to solve problems, be inquisitive about what's going on in their specific organization, and presenting that to the right person.
Jonaed: And you know, it's funny, people have a huge misconception about sales. They just think it’s just someone trying to take your money, but it's like someone who's trying to solve a problem that you have, so that you can either save time – and in business time equals money, and a lot of people don't consider it that way. So now, you've moved up. People don't just start in enterprise sales so if you could give a blueprint of your success to someone without a college degree, what would it look like? What would you tell them to do, what not to do?
Charles: Do what you're good at, and do what you enjoy doing. For me, I like talking to people. I like learning about whether it'd be their culture, or their work experience, being a friend. If you're good at that, then sales is a great place to be in. Because you're learning more about people and products every single day. You're getting better, no day is the same. So, what I would say to somebody who's looking at potentially getting into the sales industry, is pay attention to that person that knocks on your door, that's the listener.
Give them a chance, give them a shot, I do it all the time. You knock on my door; I have the sign. But you knock like I'm going to hear you out and hear your spiel. And then I'm probably going to tell you, I'm not interested, but try to learn. Look for opportunity. Whether that's like reaching out to your network, your friends, your family, your church, your community, LinkedIn, whatever is available to you, try to take full access of it and ask questions. You'll find your way.
Jonaed: Yes. I think asking questions, you just have to. That's the best way to learn because you learn about things that you didn't know you didn't know. You learn about these details, you learn about people's experience, and you really connect. So now, how much do people in enterprise sales make? I know people can make a lot.
Charles: They can, yes. I think the United States the average is about 100,000 of what they call base salary. enterprise sales is an on targets earning type situation. We look at it holistically, it's not just your base salary, what you're getting paid consistently on a monthly basis. There is the commission aspect, the grinding, like what you — I mean, the old school term, what is it? What you eat what you kill. Whatever you close, that could be in addition to that base salary.
So in the US, you can expect, $100,000 around there as a base salary, and then what they call on target earnings, your OTE, that's usually at around $195,000 for the United States. But that can vary by where you live, where you're listening to the podcast from and also what company you work for. If you're an enterprise AE for a company like Google, you're making 4400,000 to $500,000. I know enterprise reps that make millions so it's very varies all over the place and how hard you work in the product yourself.
Jonaed: I do know that one thing is to make those millions, you have to sell an expensive product.
[00:04:59]
If you have a product that's like 3 to ,5000 a year, it's going to be really, really hard for you to hit that million. But if you're selling contracts that are 50, 100, 200, 300, those are the people who generally make those millions.
Charles: It also depends on what you're selling, and also when you're selling it. So for instance, we all just went through a global pandemic and there were some resources that companies really didn't seem as clean as important as they did whenever the pandemic took place. There were companies that came out of the walls, and those enterprise AE reps just had to be at the right place, the right time, and happy to make me —
Jonaed: Yes and I know like the AI, the ones who's selling AI solutions right now. So, a lot of those things, they’re timing really impacts it. Now, let's take it back. What's your backstory? How was high school like for you? And what did you want to be in high school?
Charles: High school was fun. I was a musician in high school, my junior and senior year. I got to graduate with my best friends. I attended a private school that was within my church. Before that, I was at a 5A high school here in Austin, Texas. I mean, going from a big school to a small school was definitely different. It was drastic, but it was well needed, I graduated with small community. After high school, actually I was going down the path of being a pastor and going to a Bible college.
So, I went to an internship for two years, I traveled around the country. I spoke in front of a lot of people, thousands of folks on weekends, talking to teenagers, like really spreading positivity and a good message. But I really just never felt the tug to take it to the next level for a specific college. I was fortunate enough to be here in Austin, and Apple had a retail store. I mean, who's not an Apple fan here in Austin.
I was lucky enough to get a retail job with them and that changed the game. If I'm honest with you, that was really the game changer. Because people come into that store from all different types of backgrounds whether it be like an enterprise executive coming to replace his iPhone, or like, it's a family, you're able to talk to different people, learn different stories. And that's where I really solidified that, hey, I want to take sales to the next level.
Jonaed: So, what did you learn from that job?
Charles: I learned to look outside the box. I was asking my store manager, how do I get promoted to the next level, like a lead salesperson? And he told me, “It's not specifically just the job. You do have to have the numbers, right? But what can you do to contribute to the team? Like what would you do in this role, specifically, that would be different than what you do now.” For someone like me, I started as small and as tactile as I could.
I started cleaning the window. Every single time he would show up before work, I've made sure that those windows, the front door were clean, because he knew that the customers following him would have the same experience. So, that put me on his radar. And I provided the numbers and work ethic from there to show up and be a good candidate for that next round.
Jonaed: What was the next round?
Charles: It's called an expert's lead sales position in the retail store. I was able to lead the function, I participated in different solutions for the source specifically. So, if you walk into a store right now, I was part of that process of designing what a customer feels and how they get checked in leading that into the store, out to the store or out of the store experience. Whether they're getting their iPhone fixed, whether they're there to buy an iPhone or computer.
We helped design that and I was part of that, whether that was doing overnight procedures, like drawing up plans, doing test run, stuff like that. That's where I actually sold a computer to my future boss in the corporate realm. We stayed in touch, connected on LinkedIn. From there he hit me up and he's like, “Hey, I have an open position in our sales department, would you be interested?” Without hesitation, took them up on it and got approval from my manager. And that was my life in corporate 2012.
Jonaed: Wow. So, how was corporate?
Charles: What do you mean?
Jonaed: Like you come from the retail background and sales and retail is like customers are coming in, you're talking to them, and you kind of got in the groove. Now, you obviously have a lot of skills but corporate is a little different. In terms of like maybe you're using different systems, customers are not just necessarily walking in. It may not be face to face as much. How did you adjust to that transition?
Charles: It was needed for me. I was having a baby at that time. Getting married, having a baby or trying to build a family. Not being on my feet all day was a huge plus, now being able to go home, have some more energy to divert towards them. But actual corporate at that time was a lot different than what corporate is now.
[00:10:00]
I think corporate and tech are two words that are kind of like unanimous in meaning and action. Corporate back then it was more along the lines of what can we do to support the retail store, and I was able to bring in those experiences like this is what we're actually seeing in filling in the retail store. So, my specific department was geared towards that focusing on experiences in the retail store.
And then also tying that into the online ecommerce platform for customer goes. Now, we're very familiar with it right now. You can go to walmart.com, add an item to your cart, pick it up in the store, that wasn't a thing back in 2012. We had to design that process. It was awesome to be a part of that.
Jonaed: That’s awesome. So, how did you make your mark incorporate? How did you move up and what are some of the things you did?
Charles: Network and just be around the right people at the right time, and then also perform? You know, we've touched on it a little bit in the beginning, like it's not necessarily all about like being salesy, right. It's more about like being inquisitive. And then also, it's about like, your availability. You know, somebody told me once like, your greatest abilities, your availability, and I do my best to show up to work every day. And I know that seems like small, maybe a little remedial, like, we don't think about that a lot, but showing up and being available for when opportunities present themselves huge.
Jonaed: Yes. And you know what, it may seem small, but it's not small when you do it day in and day out. But because anybody can show up for one or two days, a few days for a couple of weeks but to do that consistently, for years with intentionality. Because you never know, it's not like on a calendar, there's a spot saying, who's going to show up on this day at this time? It's more like you keep showing up and then you just get like, I was in the store in the front, available. Instead of I was right there and this person talked. And if I wasn't right there, who knows what would have happened? So, it's something —
Charles: You can't make your mark without being —
Jonaed: You got it, 90% of success is just showing up. So, now you're moving up, you're being available, what being available, what opportunity that leads you to, next?
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Charles: Being available got me to the point where I was working with colleges K through 12, trying to figure out the right way to get in with these folks and sell iPads and iPhones and focusing on the experience that students have, specifically in the state of Ohio. We're focused on how can we utilize government funding to bring an influx of iPads through K through 12. And making sure that we have the right content to match with these devices so that teachers that are using these devices have an easy time like it's not a heavy lift for them.
So, being able to tell that story was super important in that role. And as I was building those connections, not necessarily professionally, and also, outside of that, like within my community, I met a friend. He worked for a company called Indeed. At Indeed, they were doing some crazy things at the time. It was 2017. This is when internet and job market just like fell in love. It was a crazy connection. Everybody's posting their resumes. LinkedIn is becoming like social network, where people are not just applying to jobs like they're having community.
So, he referred me to that position and I was lucky enough to join a really good team with some really good leaders. I worked there for about four years; we worked on some really cool projects. I left there actually to go back to Apple for a year. And as my year came up at Apple, I got a phone call from a leader at Indeed. He actually went to a company that I'm at now called Karat and he was leaving the sales function and really thought that I could be a valuable part of the team and I joined that team.
[00:14:58]
I worked with some really smart people, some really thought leading folks that I probably wouldn't have access to, if I wasn't in this position.
Jonaed: Wow, that’s amazing. It's really cool to just see how the opportunity presented itself. One person you sold a computer to another person you work with. And that's what happens a lot in work. You do good work, people leave. And they're like, look, I want – Charles. was cool. Charles was good at what he does, I see him adding value to my organization. Now, how did you learn more about sales? Was it all just on the job or did you read books, trainings like YouTube? What did you do?
Charles: Apple was really fundamental in that. They did a good job as far as providing us with educational resources. Training was all the time, Indeed was the same way. On the job training and resources were huge, but like you just said, that doesn't cover it all. You got to want to prove within yourself so going to YouTube is huge. Right now you get on TikTok, there's all these guys telling you how to sell something.
You're just like, I don't know, who’s right person to follow. But for me, it was more about the field. I'm a musician. I don't read music. But when I play music, I can feel the music. I know what I can contribute to the song so I translate that to my career. I want to make sure that I feel what I'm doing in my heart, and then I'm actually driven by the purpose of the product that I'm selling.
Karat makes it really easy because products that we do make available to our customers really do change lives. And that's enough for me to be able to wake up every day and do it. So, I think it's important to feel, have a good network and again, be available. Be your whole self when you do show up to work.
Jonaed: I love that. Here's some TikTok advice for the audience. If you follow some good sales leader on TikTok, I would say make sure you have a TikTok dedicated to learning because the algorithm can – it gives you what you want. If you want funny videos, if you want that, that's what you'll get. My TikTok is all sales, career, technology advice. And I've applied some of that advice to my business, and it's helped me increase my prices.
It's helped me just be more confident and just understand how to navigate certain scenarios and some of the advice that I've gotten, I've been able to share with my clients. So again, you get different perspectives, just from different people. Once you find someone that's legitimately telling you good things, listen to more of their things and feel it out. Does that seem right to you?
Charles: You know I’ve gotten a lot of inspiration; I think is the right word to use from movies. Like the whole Mad Men, Don Draper. I used to love that stuff, eat it up. And of course, I can't sell like that in my role. Our days are completely different and who we talk to, how we sell things. But I think there's an underlying sense of confidence that you have to have that you can take from that and you can bring over. But movies are huge, how people respond to words, how you can see visually in somebody's eyes, how they're responding to you or not. You get those same cues from a movie that you're probably watching at the theater.
Jonaed: So now you've obviously had a lot of success. What were some things that you kind of messed up on, tough learning lessons along the way? Because sales is about failure. There's no successful salesperson without a lot of failures.
Charles: I almost got fired from Apple retail. I remember the man who brought me into the office, sat me down. It’s like from a compassionate place, he’s like “What's going on? What can we do to support you?” The backstory is being a musician, that kind of takes away time. I had to get out of here, I got to show up to a gig. I'm playing drums, playing guitar here. And he came from a place of like, hey, we want to support you, we want to make sure that you're doing exactly what you want to do in life.
That are his terms and his way of saying it's either us or go be a full time musician. So from there, it was like a fight or flight reaction. What am I going to do? What's important? For me, it was I want to have a family one day, and I want to support them. And based on what's best for me, is the best way for me to do that. But I wish I would have probably been up a little sooner or we could have that conversation a little sooner in my career in retail.
Jonaed: It's tough as a musician, because it's like you're always chasing the next gig. Some people want to pay you an exposure and then you don't have benefits. You don't have stability than the travel. Look, when you're younger, it works. But after some point — because I interviewed several people who were musicians and eventually became a point it's like, look, I don't want to keep making $20,000 - $30,000 a year. Eventually it’s like, I want to at least be able to settle or at least move up.
[00:20:00]
But I have always found that that grit, that determination, the skills, the confidence, the ability to work with others, the project management skills really translate well. And it's always interesting to talk about, it's a great way to connect with people.
Charles: There's a lot of people that go through that too. For instance, at Apple, I had a manager who was a previous musician in his past life. Being open and being able to communicate how I felt then, and how I continue to feel with music being a huge part of my life resonated with him, because he had the same experience. So, he often like to talk about that stuff. Like you have to work for somebody that you can be real with.
Jonaed: So now you've been in sales for some time. Do you mind going into like, how is the industry or just sales just change over time? Now, it's much more tech driven. There's more analytics and all that. I mean, I know AI. I know they’re like these auto dialers that dial five numbers at a time, and they know that one's going to answer and all this stuff. It gets crazy now.
Charles: Yes. I can only really speak to my realm. When I used to sell and in different products and different companies back in the day, I could pick up the phone at my level and call store manager, and that guy is going to answer because he's probably waiting for a customer to call him. I can use a pattern interrupt, and get him to pay attention to the first 15 to 20 seconds on what I just said, find some value, see if I can get him continually going on the phone, the phone was huge, followed by email. We're not even thinking about LinkedIn, nav, like all these other tools that you can use, like that's not a thing, like it's phone and email back then.
But now it's different. People are looking at their email all the time, people are having their LinkedIn up as a 2nd, 3rd, 45th tab all day long. It's there, you have instant access. So, it's different now. In fact, it's a fight in the battle of content. Like, what are you putting in front of your prospective client that's one going to solve their problem, but two it's easier to understand and digest. And that's where the partnership between sales and sales enablement, marketing become such a big deal. Because you have certain amount of opportunities to get in front of the right person at the right time.
Jonaed: Yes, it's changing. I definitely see content because now the thing is, I got a lot of followers, and I'm going to check who's in my list. If I want something, or I'm going to go be like, “Yo, Charles, you know someone who sells this?” I'm going to go through a referral, just because you've had the experience or some credibility. And a lot of people, they'll come message me on LinkedIn — that's the sixth time I got that message and it’s I'm going to go to someone who's been interacting with me, who's been supporting my content. I'm like, this person really speaks to me. And I think content will play a much bigger part. Now looking back at your career, what would you say is your biggest accomplishment?
Charles: I think I still have a lot of time to make some really cool contributions, not only to my career, but also companies and the people that I serve. Right now, the biggest thing I can point out is helping other people get to where they need to go. Especially during this time, we've just seen huge companies lay off thousands of people at the drop of a dime. And there were folks in my network that were impacted, and I've been able to help a few of them find their next opportunity, and continue going down whatever path they're following in their career.
Jonaed: That’s definitely like a big thing. Looking back, did you ever think in 2011-2012, that you think you would end up where you are right now?
Charles: I think it's a mix. You got to have that confidence that you will progress and get the goals that you want to set out for yourself. But it goes beyond that. Like when I was growing up, I never thought that I would be making money, in general. I was going to be a pastor and back in the day, pastors don't make major money. It's really small. I wanted to have a small church, a small community.
I was definitely dead set on choosing that route, and finding the fulfilment outside of compensation. But no, there's that other side too. You wake up every day and you're like, man, I want to continue to progress. I want to continue to make more money. I want to continue to be able to provide different types of opportunities for people, your family, friends. It's all about that kind of stuff. So, there's a mix and balance between the two.
Jonaed: What would you say is the hardest thing that you went through in life throughout your life or your career?
Charles: We all probably fight with the imposter syndrome, stepping into a meeting with executives, and not having the same lineage and background that some people might have.
[00:25:04]
Struggling with that impostor syndrome and then double down on it being a black male in the corporate world, you fight with that all the time. That's a continual battle. You just got to make sure – I try to make sure that I have the right people in my life that are fueling exactly what needs to be fueled, so that I can continue to do what I do at a high level.
Jonaed: I think a lot of people face that. You're probably the only one in your group who looks like you. And then you're like, hey, am I speaking correctly? Will I be perceived a certain way? What are some mistakes that salespeople make that prevent them from moving up?
Charles: It depends on what up is. If you want to be the next level salesperson — a lot of mistakes people make is having the right thing be the right thing. Are you pursuing your commission? Is that the number one thing or are you trying to build a relationship with this client that's going to last for years so that you can have compound growth? So, making sure that you identify what's the right thing, what's the right avenue that we should be pursuing here? And then showing up and giving it a shot, not just sticking it out for six months?
And I'm not being promoted fast enough or somebody else's promoted that shouldn't have been promoted in my eyes. Like, actually sticking it out, like looking at this situation holistically. What's the potential for me here over the next four to five years? What value am I bringing to the table? And how fast can I get somebody to identify that within me, that can help me go to that next level?
Jonaed: Have you ever had mentors throughout your career? And have they been helpful?
Charles: Yes, absolutely. Everybody should try to find a mentor, whether that be in your community or professionally, you got to look for somebody. Marcus is huge person for me, Marcus Taylor. And he was that leader that was with me over at Indeed. There was a whole quarter, I tell him this all the time, but there's a whole quarter where he moved his desk right next to me. So every phone call I had, he could listen in and he provided feedback on.
He just kind of ripped me to shreds at times, like you should say this and you should have said this, you said this. I’m just like — there's a — you know that meme that you've seen around, but there's one where Austin Reaves and LeBron are playing. And LeBron goes up to him. He's like, do this, do this in Austin’s face. It's just like, what am I? I can't handle this. I was like that same moment. But without his continual outpouring of leadership, there's no way I would continue to be able to go down the path I'm going down right now.
Jonaed: Those mentors really just teach you a lot because they have the experience, they know you. When their advice hits, it hurts, but you know that they're not talking about it from a point of being a hater or anything like that. They're talking about it like this is how you can improve. And I know you can do it, and I'm rooting for you. I'm giving you this advice because I genuinely care about the things that you can do.
Charles: They have to have that access to, right?
Jonaed: Yes, that access. You have to be vulnerable and you have to listen. Now, have you ever felt insecure about not having a college degree? And if you did, how did you battle through that?
Charles: Yes. When I was applying to jobs that I shouldn't have, in any business I’m planning to. I definitely feel like your skill set is not going to carry you over the finish line. That being said, now I focus on who do I know at that company? What do I know about that company? Will they see more value in seeing me stick out for years at a university; or would they see my skills and the time that I've put into my craft to being the salesperson I am now. What's going to weigh more than there are checks and balances? And before I know that answer, I won't submit my application to them. So, it's like combating that insecurity with proactivity looking at your job career progression a little bit different.
Jonaed: And the beauty of enterprise sales is it really comes down to experience. There's nothing you're going to learn in college that talks about closing $100,000 $200,000 to $300,000 deal. There's nothing in college where you're talking about a CEO who has this problem that's costing them $2 million a year.
That's about that communication, that's about that experience, that's about that knowledge. And that's about that doing customized research so that when you approach that conversation, you have an idea of how you're going to present a solution for them. You already know what questions you're going to ask so they can reveal and you can follow up.
[00:30:01]
Now as we wrap up, you see your 18-year old self walking down the street, what do you tell him?
Charles: Don’t wear any skinny jeans. They don’t look good on you. Grow your hair out and be confident. That was a big thing being in corporate world, keeping that your fade high and tight. Grow your hair out. Have confidence in who you are as a person. Show up everyday and decide what you want to do, write it down. Get people involved in your life that can help you change for the better. That’s definitely what I will tell myself. I probably wouldn’t listen to myself because I’m hard headed especially at that age. But luckily I have my wife to keep me going in the right direction.
Jonaed: Thank you so much for your time. Is there anything you want to promote or share? How would people follow you?
Charles: Just check me out on LinkedIn. I’m easy to find, Charles Bishop. You can find me there. Also, if you’re looking to up-level your skills, definitely check out my friend, Marcus Taylor of Marcus Taylor Coaching. We are working together on some really cool initiatives. If you’re a black man in tech, check out my friend, Ken at Black Men in Tech. There’s a ton of ways to get plugged in. Link up with us, get involved. Take that step for activity so we know you’re out there.
Jonaed: I love that. Thank you so much for sharing so much good advice. We definitely got to do a part two in a couple of years when you move up and you’re at the next level and you’ve helped so many more people.
Charles: Cool, man. Absolutely. Thank you for having me.
Another great episode. Thank you for listening. Hopefully this information was valuable, and you learned a lot. Stay tuned for the next episode. This show is sponsored by you. No Degree wants to remain free from influence so that we can talk about the topics without bias. If you think the show is worth a dollar or two, please check out our Patreon page. Any amount is appreciated and will go towards making future episodes even better. Follow us on Instagram or Snapchat @nodegreepodcast, on Facebook @facebook.com/NoDegreeInc. If you want to personally reach out to me connect or follow me on LinkedIn @jonaediqbal, spelled J-O-N-A-E-D, last name I-Q-B-A-L. Until next time, no degree, no problem. Nodegree.com.
[00:32:39] End of Audio